Comments on: You need this to get a job in journalism http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/ Notes from the classroom and observations about today's practice of journalism online Tue, 07 Oct 2008 02:25:38 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: The Journalism Iconoclast http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5941 The Journalism Iconoclast Fri, 07 Dec 2007 17:49:04 +0000 http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5941 [...] Mindy McAdams says that journalists who can flourish online and in print can do at least these skills: [...] [...] Mindy McAdams says that journalists who can flourish online and in print can do at least these skills: [...]

]]> By: Electric Fishwrap › If I had a do-over http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5860 Electric Fishwrap › If I had a do-over Wed, 05 Dec 2007 15:35:36 +0000 http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5860 [...] McAdams yet again comes forth with a great post right as I was writing this. Journalists who expect to get a job will “walk in the door [...] [...] McAdams yet again comes forth with a great post right as I was writing this. Journalists who expect to get a job will “walk in the door [...]

]]> By: Pat Thornton http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5841 Pat Thornton Tue, 04 Dec 2007 22:39:01 +0000 http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5841 Phil, I hadn't thought too deeply about AS3. I'll have to look more deeply into the language, and if a programmer is using AS3 to develop than he or she wouldn't need to know Photoshop. Most newspapers, however, are looking for people not at your level for the majority of Flash projects. Those people would be well served knowing Flash and Photoshop. As some of you know, I'm not a huge Flash fan, because I think it's a resource hog and often poorly used. Although, I have seen some very good uses of Flash with ActionScript (I like a lot of what WPNI does with it). With more real programmers using Flash, maybe I'll start to become a bigger fan, but I still see a lot of sites built entirely in Flash when they should have used mostly CSS and then Flash for some of the content. Phil,

I hadn’t thought too deeply about AS3. I’ll have to look more deeply into the language, and if a programmer is using AS3 to develop than he or she wouldn’t need to know Photoshop.

Most newspapers, however, are looking for people not at your level for the majority of Flash projects. Those people would be well served knowing Flash and Photoshop.

As some of you know, I’m not a huge Flash fan, because I think it’s a resource hog and often poorly used. Although, I have seen some very good uses of Flash with ActionScript (I like a lot of what WPNI does with it). With more real programmers using Flash, maybe I’ll start to become a bigger fan, but I still see a lot of sites built entirely in Flash when they should have used mostly CSS and then Flash for some of the content.

]]> By: Phil http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5821 Phil Tue, 04 Dec 2007 07:06:01 +0000 http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5821 You'll notice I said "slideshows," not "audio slideshows." You’ll notice I said “slideshows,” not “audio slideshows.”

]]> By: Mindy http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5808 Mindy Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:52:15 +0000 http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5808 Yes, there are real programmers at The New York Times and also at The Washington Post. I still stand by my observation that "not many" news organizations employ real ActionScript programmers. MSNBC.com has some too. But if I counted all of the news organizations that do on my fingers and toes, I might have some toes left over. No disrespect meant to you, Phil. I totally hope you are correct that "more and more of them will begin looking for serious programmers" -- and soon!! You are also correct that "Authoring on the timeline exclusively really limits the capabilities of Flash," but it is NOT enough if you are only making slideshows -- because you can't properly control the audio if you rely on the Timeline. Yes, there are real programmers at The New York Times and also at The Washington Post. I still stand by my observation that “not many” news organizations employ real ActionScript programmers. MSNBC.com has some too.

But if I counted all of the news organizations that do on my fingers and toes, I might have some toes left over.

No disrespect meant to you, Phil.

I totally hope you are correct that “more and more of them will begin looking for serious programmers” — and soon!!

You are also correct that “Authoring on the timeline exclusively really limits the capabilities of Flash,” but it is NOT enough if you are only making slideshows — because you can’t properly control the audio if you rely on the Timeline.

]]> By: Phil http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5807 Phil Mon, 03 Dec 2007 18:38:52 +0000 http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5807 Yes, I am a journalist. And as to not knowing too many news orgs that hire real Actionscript programmers, who do you think is building all of Flash modules for nytimes.com? Knowledge of object-oriented programming (OOP) is becoming a requirement for many of the larger news organizations (for Flash developers). However, I do recognize that for the majority of organizations, this is not the case. But I imagine that more and more of them will begin looking for serious programmers as online journalism evolves. Authoring on the timeline exclusively really limits the capabilities of Flash, but might be enough if you are only interested in making slideshows. Yes, I am a journalist. And as to not knowing too many news orgs that hire real Actionscript programmers, who do you think is building all of Flash modules for nytimes.com? Knowledge of object-oriented programming (OOP) is becoming a requirement for many of the larger news organizations (for Flash developers).
However, I do recognize that for the majority of organizations, this is not the case. But I imagine that more and more of them will begin looking for serious programmers as online journalism evolves. Authoring on the timeline exclusively really limits the capabilities of Flash, but might be enough if you are only interested in making slideshows.

]]> By: Mindy http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5801 Mindy Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:07:09 +0000 http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5801 A question for Phil: Are you a journalist? Because Fiona was talking about what the journalist "walking in the door" needs to know ... It's cool if you are not; just trying to clarify. A question for Phil: Are you a journalist? Because Fiona was talking about what the journalist “walking in the door” needs to know …

It’s cool if you are not; just trying to clarify.

]]> By: Mindy http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5800 Mindy Mon, 03 Dec 2007 14:03:58 +0000 http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5800 Phil, I don't know of too many news organizations that employ any real ActionScript programmers. They should, of course. But they don't. Thus the Flash is still mostly authored on the Timeline, and the Flash developer is more a designer than a programmer. S/he probably needs to know Photoshop well, and does. S/he probably also knows Illustrator VERY well. Phil, I don’t know of too many news organizations that employ any real ActionScript programmers. They should, of course. But they don’t. Thus the Flash is still mostly authored on the Timeline, and the Flash developer is more a designer than a programmer. S/he probably needs to know Photoshop well, and does. S/he probably also knows Illustrator VERY well.

]]> By: Phil http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5794 Phil Mon, 03 Dec 2007 06:47:02 +0000 http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5794 Pat, Good point about mockups. However, it sounds like you are talking about doing both Flash and design work, which I do not. I am a programmer and the most the designer needs from me is a wireframe, which I would not use Photoshop for. This goes back to my point about specialization (designer vs developer). As to your point about not knowing any good Flash developers who also didn't know Photoshop well, I think it depends on what kind of Flash developer you are talking about. Flash, in its earlier days, was used most notably for animation (hence the timeline). Now, especially with the release of AS3, Flash (Actionscript) has become a serious programming language and is attracting more and more computer programmers. If you think about this, then it's not so crazy to think that these people wouldn't have much/any experience with Photoshop. Pat,
Good point about mockups. However, it sounds like you are talking about doing both Flash and design work, which I do not. I am a programmer and the most the designer needs from me is a wireframe, which I would not use Photoshop for. This goes back to my point about specialization (designer vs developer).
As to your point about not knowing any good Flash developers who also didn’t know Photoshop well, I think it depends on what kind of Flash developer you are talking about. Flash, in its earlier days, was used most notably for animation (hence the timeline). Now, especially with the release of AS3, Flash (Actionscript) has become a serious programming language and is attracting more and more computer programmers. If you think about this, then it’s not so crazy to think that these people wouldn’t have much/any experience with Photoshop.

]]> By: Pat Thornton http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5790 Pat Thornton Sun, 02 Dec 2007 23:43:17 +0000 http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2007/you-need-this-to-get-a-job-in-journalism/#comment-5790 Phil, I'm not sure how you haven't opened Photoshop in the last two years. Do you use photos in your Flash presentations? Do you make Flash features? I mock up all my features in Photoshop before I ever try to build anything. I guess if you have a really big organization, you'd never have to open up Photoshop, but most of the people I know at the big paper's do have a myriad of skills. But I'd still never start designing something without mocking it up, especially a stand-alone site. And I've never met someone who was really good with Flash who also didn't know Photoshop well. Phil, I’m not sure how you haven’t opened Photoshop in the last two years. Do you use photos in your Flash presentations? Do you make Flash features?

I mock up all my features in Photoshop before I ever try to build anything.

I guess if you have a really big organization, you’d never have to open up Photoshop, but most of the people I know at the big paper’s do have a myriad of skills.

But I’d still never start designing something without mocking it up, especially a stand-alone site.

And I’ve never met someone who was really good with Flash who also didn’t know Photoshop well.

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