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	<title>Comments on: Catch-22 in journalism internships</title>
	<atom:link href="http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/</link>
	<description>Notes from the classroom and observations about today's practice of journalism online</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:17:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Virgil</title>
		<link>http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-12300</link>
		<dc:creator>Virgil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 04:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-12300</guid>
		<description>I am not a writer as you can tell, so please bear with me. 

I found this blog while researching to gain an understanding of internships as I am in need of content for my web sites. 

I refuse to enter into any situation that is not a win win win situation for the student, consumer and me so I am doing my research in an effort to create that.   

You all have valid points. However, some of your opinions are a bit short sited, the carpenter, mechanic plumber... that makes a nice hourly wage typically puts in 10-30 hours a week that is not on the clock. They also need to pay to learn.
For me I have invested over 17 months of my time in these web sites and paid for the opportunity. I have faith that it will be fruitful. It is where my heart is and I am willing to do it.

The catch 22 is not exclusive to your trade. 

For the people that have never run a business you need to understand that not every business is capitalized well enough to pay to provide opportunity, in your case to be published.

Thank you again for the knowledge you have given me via this blog.

Have a great day and follow the path of your dreams with every conscionable means you discover.

PRESS ON 
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not a writer as you can tell, so please bear with me. </p>
<p>I found this blog while researching to gain an understanding of internships as I am in need of content for my web sites. </p>
<p>I refuse to enter into any situation that is not a win win win situation for the student, consumer and me so I am doing my research in an effort to create that.   </p>
<p>You all have valid points. However, some of your opinions are a bit short sited, the carpenter, mechanic plumber&#8230; that makes a nice hourly wage typically puts in 10-30 hours a week that is not on the clock. They also need to pay to learn.<br />
For me I have invested over 17 months of my time in these web sites and paid for the opportunity. I have faith that it will be fruitful. It is where my heart is and I am willing to do it.</p>
<p>The catch 22 is not exclusive to your trade. </p>
<p>For the people that have never run a business you need to understand that not every business is capitalized well enough to pay to provide opportunity, in your case to be published.</p>
<p>Thank you again for the knowledge you have given me via this blog.</p>
<p>Have a great day and follow the path of your dreams with every conscionable means you discover.</p>
<p>PRESS ON<br />
Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.</p>
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		<title>By: Brittany</title>
		<link>http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-10749</link>
		<dc:creator>Brittany</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 14:01:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-10749</guid>
		<description>I am in this situation at this very moment. When I went to the Bursar's Office to find that not only will I be paying $755.40 for my Professional Seminar class, but $2141.40 for the nine credit internship. Why am I paying for experience? But here's the real kicker, I work 40 hours/week and get paid for 10 hours. I have to eat and pay $550 for rent. It is certainly something that needs to be changed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am in this situation at this very moment. When I went to the Bursar&#8217;s Office to find that not only will I be paying $755.40 for my Professional Seminar class, but $2141.40 for the nine credit internship. Why am I paying for experience? But here&#8217;s the real kicker, I work 40 hours/week and get paid for 10 hours. I have to eat and pay $550 for rent. It is certainly something that needs to be changed.</p>
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		<title>By: Ray</title>
		<link>http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-10734</link>
		<dc:creator>Ray</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 10 Jun 2008 08:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-10734</guid>
		<description>I agree with you, but as a producer working in TV news, the money is drying up for ANYTHING extra.  We are doubling up just from what we did last year.  I now produce two newscasts daily when two people were doing that last year.  Money for training is out of the budget.  Heck!  We have even had our coffee cups and plastic forks in the break room cut out.  The janitor has been fired.  The TV business is not going to add any other costs to the bottom line, no matter how much the business might benefit in the future.  People running the show are concerned about today, and trying to even be in business tomorrow.  I agree 100% with your point of cutting off the nose in spite the face, but the bottom line is, I'm not sure management is concerned about QUALITY as it is about getting more work done for less money.  There is some GREAT NEWS though.  As the internet becomes more and more important in the news business, it will become cheaper and cheaper for smart people to become successful online without caring what a corporate boss is thinking about the future of the business.  Matt Drudge is an example of this.  www.DrudgeReport.com would not be what it is if it were started in a newsroom.  But it has become one of the biggest sources of news in the country for journalists.

Raymond</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with you, but as a producer working in TV news, the money is drying up for ANYTHING extra.  We are doubling up just from what we did last year.  I now produce two newscasts daily when two people were doing that last year.  Money for training is out of the budget.  Heck!  We have even had our coffee cups and plastic forks in the break room cut out.  The janitor has been fired.  The TV business is not going to add any other costs to the bottom line, no matter how much the business might benefit in the future.  People running the show are concerned about today, and trying to even be in business tomorrow.  I agree 100% with your point of cutting off the nose in spite the face, but the bottom line is, I&#8217;m not sure management is concerned about QUALITY as it is about getting more work done for less money.  There is some GREAT NEWS though.  As the internet becomes more and more important in the news business, it will become cheaper and cheaper for smart people to become successful online without caring what a corporate boss is thinking about the future of the business.  Matt Drudge is an example of this.  <a href="http://www.DrudgeReport.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.DrudgeReport.com</a> would not be what it is if it were started in a newsroom.  But it has become one of the biggest sources of news in the country for journalists.</p>
<p>Raymond</p>
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		<title>By: Kelly T.</title>
		<link>http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9520</link>
		<dc:creator>Kelly T.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 12 Apr 2008 05:43:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9520</guid>
		<description>It's quite obvious to me that one of the main goals of journalism these days is to diversify. How can the field possibly be making any progress when the prevalence of unpaid internships eliminates certain groups from the running? Graduates need experience to get the job. They need internships to get the experience. They need to be paid to afford to live. What is happening to students like me who can barely afford college, let alone an unpaid internship? Goodbye diversity...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s quite obvious to me that one of the main goals of journalism these days is to diversify. How can the field possibly be making any progress when the prevalence of unpaid internships eliminates certain groups from the running? Graduates need experience to get the job. They need internships to get the experience. They need to be paid to afford to live. What is happening to students like me who can barely afford college, let alone an unpaid internship? Goodbye diversity&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Ken Tabacsko</title>
		<link>http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9400</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken Tabacsko</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 22:03:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9400</guid>
		<description>Ronald...you are the kind of caring individual the industry needs more of...as a professional journalist and an adjunct J instructor, I salute you.

ken</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ronald&#8230;you are the kind of caring individual the industry needs more of&#8230;as a professional journalist and an adjunct J instructor, I salute you.</p>
<p>ken</p>
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		<title>By: Ronald Dupont Jr.</title>
		<link>http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9396</link>
		<dc:creator>Ronald Dupont Jr.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 19:02:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9396</guid>
		<description>Mindy:

As you know, I'm the editor of The High Springs Herald, a weekly newspaper just a half-hour away from the University of Florida. We use interns extensively, offering internships to five students or so each semester.

We have the good fortune of being driving distance from UF and working around students' work and class schedules (within reason).

But for most weekly newspapers, interns are out of the question. Weekly newspaper -- which often can provide a better internship than a daily because of the variety of work an intern will do -- get by from week to week and can't afford to pay an intern.

I always suggest to weeklies that they attend the University of Florida's internship fair held twice each year and advertise they are looking for students whose hometown is the same as the newspaper's. This way, students can live at home while getting a quality internship.

Heck, even the Florida Press Association comes to each internship fair and interviews students, then sends the results of those interviews to interested newspapers.

But weekly newspaper editors are so traditionaly overworked that they have little time to travel to UF for a daylong internship fair. But they need to make the time.

Quality interns can help free up some of the weekly's overworked staffers to work on long-terms projects that you so rarely see in weeklies. And the interns get in-depth experience, covering everything from city commission meetings to birthdays of 100-year-olds.

Producing a quality internship is a lot of work. At The Herald, where we've had more than 75 interns in the past five years, we hold a staff meeting every Thursday at 9:30 a.m. In that staff meeting, we not only hand out the week's stories but talk about challenges any of us may have faced. We also point out great writing and compare our stories with those of competitor's.

Further, not a single intern's story -- not one -- gets published in The High Springs Herald until it is edited by me WITH the intern. Sometimes the intern is actually present with me in the room. More often than not, the intern is one the phone with me (saving them gas money). They open up their story on their computer and follow along with me as I edit their story on my computer. This way, when they open the paper Thursday, there are NO surprises.

Further, I NEVER re-write anything. Yes, we do normal editing together, but if an intern turns in something so horrible that it needs to be rewritten, we talk about ways the story could be rewritten. Then I instruct the intern to begin that process and let me know once they have a new product.

This way, if an employer ever calls me down the road for a reference for a former intern and says, "How much of what they wrote is you rewriting their material," I can say with certainty, "None of it."

Because I've heard the complaint that journalism colleges graduate great feature writers but inexperienced news writers, every intern at The Herald is required to cover a selected city commission in concert with the full-time, professional reporter who normally covers that city.

This way, throughout the course of 3-4 months, the intern gets several, if not a dozen or more, city commission meetings under their belt. They learn how to take long, boring meetings and find the meat that is important to the readers. They learn the art of hard-core news writing.

Finally, as part of a personal philosophy I have, I try each semester to pick three highly experienced interns with great clips, plus two interns with no clips and no experience.

After all, if you can't get your first experience at a weekly newspaper, where are you supposed to get experience? Yes, working with total novices can be tough, but the rewards are great when you seem them begin to mature and blossom.

I treasure our interns, and we even started a Facebook group where we keep in touch with our interns and follow them as they move forward in the professional world.

An excellent internship program, while a lot of work, can be something wonderful for both the newspaper and the student.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mindy:</p>
<p>As you know, I&#8217;m the editor of The High Springs Herald, a weekly newspaper just a half-hour away from the University of Florida. We use interns extensively, offering internships to five students or so each semester.</p>
<p>We have the good fortune of being driving distance from UF and working around students&#8217; work and class schedules (within reason).</p>
<p>But for most weekly newspapers, interns are out of the question. Weekly newspaper &#8212; which often can provide a better internship than a daily because of the variety of work an intern will do &#8212; get by from week to week and can&#8217;t afford to pay an intern.</p>
<p>I always suggest to weeklies that they attend the University of Florida&#8217;s internship fair held twice each year and advertise they are looking for students whose hometown is the same as the newspaper&#8217;s. This way, students can live at home while getting a quality internship.</p>
<p>Heck, even the Florida Press Association comes to each internship fair and interviews students, then sends the results of those interviews to interested newspapers.</p>
<p>But weekly newspaper editors are so traditionaly overworked that they have little time to travel to UF for a daylong internship fair. But they need to make the time.</p>
<p>Quality interns can help free up some of the weekly&#8217;s overworked staffers to work on long-terms projects that you so rarely see in weeklies. And the interns get in-depth experience, covering everything from city commission meetings to birthdays of 100-year-olds.</p>
<p>Producing a quality internship is a lot of work. At The Herald, where we&#8217;ve had more than 75 interns in the past five years, we hold a staff meeting every Thursday at 9:30 a.m. In that staff meeting, we not only hand out the week&#8217;s stories but talk about challenges any of us may have faced. We also point out great writing and compare our stories with those of competitor&#8217;s.</p>
<p>Further, not a single intern&#8217;s story &#8212; not one &#8212; gets published in The High Springs Herald until it is edited by me WITH the intern. Sometimes the intern is actually present with me in the room. More often than not, the intern is one the phone with me (saving them gas money). They open up their story on their computer and follow along with me as I edit their story on my computer. This way, when they open the paper Thursday, there are NO surprises.</p>
<p>Further, I NEVER re-write anything. Yes, we do normal editing together, but if an intern turns in something so horrible that it needs to be rewritten, we talk about ways the story could be rewritten. Then I instruct the intern to begin that process and let me know once they have a new product.</p>
<p>This way, if an employer ever calls me down the road for a reference for a former intern and says, &#8220;How much of what they wrote is you rewriting their material,&#8221; I can say with certainty, &#8220;None of it.&#8221;</p>
<p>Because I&#8217;ve heard the complaint that journalism colleges graduate great feature writers but inexperienced news writers, every intern at The Herald is required to cover a selected city commission in concert with the full-time, professional reporter who normally covers that city.</p>
<p>This way, throughout the course of 3-4 months, the intern gets several, if not a dozen or more, city commission meetings under their belt. They learn how to take long, boring meetings and find the meat that is important to the readers. They learn the art of hard-core news writing.</p>
<p>Finally, as part of a personal philosophy I have, I try each semester to pick three highly experienced interns with great clips, plus two interns with no clips and no experience.</p>
<p>After all, if you can&#8217;t get your first experience at a weekly newspaper, where are you supposed to get experience? Yes, working with total novices can be tough, but the rewards are great when you seem them begin to mature and blossom.</p>
<p>I treasure our interns, and we even started a Facebook group where we keep in touch with our interns and follow them as they move forward in the professional world.</p>
<p>An excellent internship program, while a lot of work, can be something wonderful for both the newspaper and the student.</p>
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		<title>By: SeanBlanda.com &#187; Confessions of a Journalism Student</title>
		<link>http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9387</link>
		<dc:creator>SeanBlanda.com &#187; Confessions of a Journalism Student</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 05:14:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9387</guid>
		<description>[...] and work part or full time. Some even do all of this and join the student newspaper or magazine (as Mindy McAdams wrote in the best journalism-related post all [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] and work part or full time. Some even do all of this and join the student newspaper or magazine (as Mindy McAdams wrote in the best journalism-related post all [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Mindy</title>
		<link>http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9378</link>
		<dc:creator>Mindy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Apr 2008 00:18:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9378</guid>
		<description>Gayle brings up a very good point -- if a student can complete an unpaid internship close to home or school, it can open the door to better, paid internships. The earlier the students starts doing internships, the more internships s/he can complete before graduation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gayle brings up a very good point &#8212; if a student can complete an unpaid internship close to home or school, it can open the door to better, paid internships. The earlier the students starts doing internships, the more internships s/he can complete before graduation.</p>
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		<title>By: Gayle</title>
		<link>http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9368</link>
		<dc:creator>Gayle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 18:06:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9368</guid>
		<description>I confess that I advise my students to take the unpaid internships. I feel bad doing it, but here's why:

1. We're not a top-tier j-school. My kids need to compete with students from those schools. They have to show they'll jump higher, work harder and learn more. So I advise them to first take the no-pay, for-credit internships in town. If they can't afford it during the summer, most of the media firms here will allow students to intern during the school year. 

2. There's lots of local opportunity. We're in a town with 28 Gannett weeklies, one daily, and a lifestyle weekly; a growing newspaper web-only site that emerged when a competing daily's JOA ended; three network TV stations and two independents; one alternative weekly; a monthly city magazine; and several smaller mags and e-zines. There's also a smaller daily and some weeklies run by Cox not far away. My kids get the work by agreeing to the for-credit gig -- often besting the more accomplished students from the better j-schools. Sometimes, they write internship proposals for editors -- who love them -- and get the internships that way. 

3. After a year or two of unpaid work, armed with better clips or URLs, my students aim for the paid gigs. They usually get them. When the ygraduate, they usually have more outside journalism experience than those students from the j-schools. I am always complemented on my students' work ethic. One editor said recently, "Your students don't have any 'attitude.' I like that."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I confess that I advise my students to take the unpaid internships. I feel bad doing it, but here&#8217;s why:</p>
<p>1. We&#8217;re not a top-tier j-school. My kids need to compete with students from those schools. They have to show they&#8217;ll jump higher, work harder and learn more. So I advise them to first take the no-pay, for-credit internships in town. If they can&#8217;t afford it during the summer, most of the media firms here will allow students to intern during the school year. </p>
<p>2. There&#8217;s lots of local opportunity. We&#8217;re in a town with 28 Gannett weeklies, one daily, and a lifestyle weekly; a growing newspaper web-only site that emerged when a competing daily&#8217;s JOA ended; three network TV stations and two independents; one alternative weekly; a monthly city magazine; and several smaller mags and e-zines. There&#8217;s also a smaller daily and some weeklies run by Cox not far away. My kids get the work by agreeing to the for-credit gig &#8212; often besting the more accomplished students from the better j-schools. Sometimes, they write internship proposals for editors &#8212; who love them &#8212; and get the internships that way. </p>
<p>3. After a year or two of unpaid work, armed with better clips or URLs, my students aim for the paid gigs. They usually get them. When the ygraduate, they usually have more outside journalism experience than those students from the j-schools. I am always complemented on my students&#8217; work ethic. One editor said recently, &#8220;Your students don&#8217;t have any &#8216;attitude.&#8217; I like that.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: The Journalism Iconoclast &#187; Did your internships pay?</title>
		<link>http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9366</link>
		<dc:creator>The Journalism Iconoclast &#187; Did your internships pay?</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 17:38:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://mindymcadams.com/tojou/2008/catch-22-in-journalism-internships/#comment-9366</guid>
		<description>[...] Mindy McAdams has a post about how many journalism internships don&#8217;t pay, yet internships are a requirement for employment at most journalism companies. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Mindy McAdams has a post about how many journalism internships don&#8217;t pay, yet internships are a requirement for employment at most journalism companies. [...]</p>
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